“If we don’t keep hold of dreams, we may as well give up.”

On your website I read you started your ‘non boring podcast about Europe’ in 2017. Why?
The Europeans: Well, partly because we were confused as to why nobody else was making a podcast about Europe that reached beyond the “Brussels Bubble”. Dominic spent many hours every week listening to podcasts about the U.S., but beyond national news, knew hardly anything about what was happening on the continent where we live.

We felt there was an urgent need for a European podcast that explored European identity, examined the news through a pan-European lens, and celebrated the diverse cultures of this continent we call home. We were two Brits living in different EU countries—Katy in France, Dominic in the Netherlands—and the Brexit result hit us hard. We wondered whether one of the reasons so many millions of Brits had voted to leave the EU was that nobody truly felt European or understood what was happening in the corridors of power.

We weren’t experts in European affairs, but we think that our fresh (or naive?), resolutely non-Brussels perspective made the podcast accessible and appealing to other Europeans who joined us on the journey.

Surely your initial set-up changed. Can you summarize your journey for us?
The Europeans: We began recording in our bedrooms seven years ago, surrounded by pillows to make the sound as crisp and clean as possible. Dominic recently graduated to a desk, but Katy still records in her closet. So some things have changed, yes, and we definitely have much better microphones than when we started, but the basic format of the show has remained pretty similar.

We weren’t sure if anyone would want to listen to us, but happily, seven years later, we have a loyal listenership of tens of thousands of people who tune in each month—many of whom also help keep the show going by donating via Patreon.

One of the biggest changes since we started is that we are now a bigger team—we’re thrilled to work with some of the best talent in radio across Europe. Producer Katz Laszlo was the first to join us, and with her help, we’ve created more ambitious narrative non-fiction episodes, like the Postcards from Europe series, which we made with support from the ECF, and our hugely popular Oatly Chronicles series. After Katz, we expanded the team with producer Wojciech Oleksiak, a former drummer based in Warsaw, who is a whizz at sound design and recently made an excellent series on the government takeover of local media in Central Europe.

Despite growing and covering more serious topics, we have worked hard to maintain the semi-informal and conversational tone of the show.

Your podcast has been lauded as breaking the Brussels bubble. The Financial Times quoted you saying your podcast wants to “explain how the EU actually works without boring you to death.” Why is it important to know how the EU works, and why do regular educational institutions not take this up?
The Europeans: We should first stress that we don’t only podcast about how the EU works: we try our hardest to shine a light on stories from all across Europe, using the broadest definition of Europe possible. But indeed, explaining how the EU works in an approachable way is one of the things that has become something of a trademark of our show. The first mini-series we ever produced, consisted of three episodes introducing listeners to the European Commission, European Parliament and the EU law-making process. Why is it important? Well as the Washington Post believe (or at least used to, pre-Bezos): democracy dies in darkness. And “darkness” can mean a total absence of reporting but it can also describe reporting that is incomprehensible to the vast majority of European citizens.

We honestly don’t blame journalists for writing about the EU in a way that is difficult for the general public to digest. Specialist reporting for those working in policy is vital to the democratic ecosystem of Europe as well. But there is a real scarcity of media outlets that communicate about EU institutions in a way that resonates with regular people.

Why don’t more educational institutions take up the task of teaching people about the EU? Perhaps because it never feels like a top priority? (That could be about to change thanks to terrifying shifts in geopolitics.) Or perhaps it’s because teaching about the institutions in an engaging way is genuinely difficult. Truly understanding how the EU works and how it interacts with national governments takes a lifetime. We’re slowly getting there, but we still regularly find ourselves confused. That’s why I think our podcast works as an educational platform—because our listeners are learning alongside us as we try to make sense of what’s happening in the EU.

You also produced your podcast throughout the pandemic years – did you notice a difference in listeners patterns? Are these post-corona years different?
The Europeans: During the first lockdown, our listener numbers dropped initially a little bit. We concluded that this was probably because: 1. Everyone’s schedules were thrown upside down, breaking their regular listening habits (for example: no more commuting). 2. Many people wanted to disconnect from the world and avoid anything remotely news-related.

But our listener numbers soon picked up again, perhaps because we decided to impose a self-inflicted C-word ban: we decided to focus our shows on everything that was happening in Europe apart from Covid-19.

Recently, we’ve noticed a jump in listeners, which we assume is due to more people seeking content about Europe because the very existence of Europe feels more uncertain than ever.

Now that Europe is anything but boring, how do you manage to keep your light tone of voice? I have had the pleasure of meeting you in person and even though you don’t come over as a pessimist bunch, you know enough about Europe to become cynical about the gap between dreams and realities. What prevents you from falling into the ‘We’ve told you so” trap opinion-makers often fall into?
The Europeans: Our listeners really help us feel less cynical about the world. With them, we have created a real community, mainly online, but also with occasional live meet-ups. We come into contact with so many curious people living all across the continent and beyond. People who aren’t giving into the cynicism of the state of the world and want to keep fighting for better public services and a liveable planet. Things are pretty bleak right now in many ways, but we cannot predict where things will go, and if we don’t keep hold of dreams, we may as well give up.

Just checking, what actually could be your ‘We’ve told you so…” item?
The Europeans: It is sadly unsurprising that the democratic backsliding we’ve been talking about on our podcast in Hungary for many years is now starting to appear in many other European countries, including in the Netherlands, where Dominic and Katz live. The main feeling we have about it isn’t “we’ve told you so” but “let’s get to work”.

You have also been dedicating serious time to producing series as “An autocrats guide to destroying local media” or “The Big-Agri bully boys” – how do you deal with incoming angry mails or worse?
The Europeans: Surprisingly, we receive very few hate emails. We do get critical messages, but they’re almost always well-argued and respectfully written. We truly appreciate constructive feedback—especially when we’re covering countries we don’t live in. It helps us grow and often makes us reassess how we should approach similar topics in the future.

However, since we started posting regularly on YouTube, we’ve encountered some pretty awful comments. We try to engage with people online as much as possible, but when comments are racist or discriminatory, we delete them, block the user, and move on.

You must also receive plenty of compliments from listeners across our continent. How do you deal with those? And what do these compliments tell you about a shared European sentiment?
The Europeans: Katy and Dominic grew up in the UK, and many Brits have an odd habit of deflecting praise—often downplaying their achievements instead of just saying “thank you.” Thankfully, after more than a decade of living outside the UK, we’ve mostly unlearned that.

One of the best compliments we receive—and we hear it often—is: “Listening to your podcast each week is the one moment when I feel European.” It’s bittersweet, because it suggests that people don’t often feel European in their daily lives—but at the same time, we take it as the highest praise. It makes all the hard work worth it.